SHODAN'S POST ON 'WHOSE SEED CHRIST IS' @ carm.org

 Originally Posted by forever4truth 

From Albert Barnes Notes on the New Testament:

I am the root. Not the root in the sense that David sprang from him, as a tree does from a root, but in the sense that he was the "root-shoot" of David, or that he himself sprang from him, as a sprout starts up from a decayed and fallen tree--as of the oak, the willow, the chesnut, etc. See Barnes "Isaiah 11:1". The meaning then is, not that he was the ancestor of David, or that David sprang from him, but that he was the offspring of David, according to the promise in the Scripture, that the Messiah should be descended from him. No argument then, can be derived from this passage in proof of the pre-existence, or the divinity of Christ.

http://classic.studylight.org/com/bn...rse=016#Re22_1

BTW, "root" from the Greek rhiza is defined as follows by Thayers under Rev. 5:5 & 22:16:

2) that which like a root springs from a root, a sprout, shoot

3) metaph. offspring, progeny

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G4491&t=KJV

As far as a hendiadys being in use, do you actually think that when John says "bright and morning star," he is referring to two types of stars or to Jesus just being one star that shines brilliantly?

So if Christ was the seed of David literally(come out from his loins) and David from Adam's how does this qualify Christ to be our savior and how was Christ sinless inspite of coming out from Adam's loins?

The scriptures I could show that Christ was seed of David was by promise and that he came out from God are :

Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

What do you understand by 'BOSOM'?

Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Ro 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Ga 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Ac 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
How is Yehoshua the Son of the Highest if he is the Son of David?

Lu 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

How is Christ David's Lord if he was seed of David?

Lu 20:44 David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?

Messenger

Then at what point in time was His flesh created?

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

At virgin birth. There was not Eternal Son prior to this. 'This day' shows that it was in 'time' not beyond TIME

Did Christ materialize as mortal flesh?

Yes or else he couldn't have died, could he? You trins state he was God and man so which part of him died, when he died?

Was His flesh then newly created ex-nihilo?

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

'IN ALL THINGS'

You are asking the same questions over again

Heb 2:14 ¶ Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

I don't know what you mean by ex-nihilo. He was in every way like us 'FLESH AND BLOOD' but yet without sin because he was not seed of Adam but GOD. Do you doubt this?

Does His flesh then contain no human cellular DNA?

Again straw man question. If he was in every way like us then he was completely human/man

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh

He was in the likeness of sinful flesh not SINFUL FLESH. If he had sinful flesh then he is not qualified to be mankind's SAVIOR because he will have to save himself first.
Instead of asking me questions can you clarify your position and let us know on this forum whether you believe Yehoshua was without sin and how was he born without SIN? Did his seed originate from ADAM?

No Trin that I know of says Jesus was flesh before His human birth. His flesh is from Mary. The Word before His earthly existence is the same one who He was on earth. The Word is part of who God is. And wherever God is, all of God is.

So in which body did he dwell in heaven before he came on earth? There you go, even you believe in the Son of man existing in heaven before his virgin birth. How can he be Son of man without being part of his creation?

I have asked him many times but received only cryptic answers.

I have discussed with you on many occasions and asked you many questions but each time you came back only asking questions and never clarifying your position. Even your answers have been cryptic

Did He then become mortal flesh itself ie bones, muscles and all?

Again you are asking the same question. He was flesh and blood. Yes he had muscles and bones just like US. The only difference is he was the Son of Man by promise not by man's seed/sperm. He did not exist as the Son of man, his virgin birth made him Son of man

Heb 2:14 ¶ Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Ac 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Ro 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

An analogy for you to understand Levi paid the tithe to Melchizedek whilst he was in the loins of Abraham so whose loins did Christ come from, was it David to whom promise was made that on his throne would the Christ sit forever or was Christ the Incorruptible seed of God which is named as Logos of God?

Re 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Messenger

WHO DWELLS IN UNAPPROACHABLE LIGHT?

 Originally Posted by adams off ox

you said only the father dwells in unapproachable light, even before the incarnation, i even asked if the holy Spirit dwells in that light and you said NO.

Trinity is derived not from the Bible but from outsource. God is light and is unapproachable. That's why there was a command:

Ge 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Heb 1:3 (The Son) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;


We couldn't approach God (no creature can) in transcendence (dwelling on high, above the heavens) and He wanted the creatures to know Him and see Him face to face in His similitude:

Ps 113:4 The LORD is high above all nations, and his glory above the heavens.
5 Who is like unto the LORD our God, who dwelleth on high, 
6 Who humbleth himself to behold the things that are in heaven, and in the earth!

The humility of God is seen in Christ bowing down the heavens and visiting the lowly man.

God in transcedence (unapproachable light/invisible) was all alone with His own Logos and His own Spirit. Both Logos and Spirit were internal to God until distribution in immanence. The Logos defines/qualifies God. It's God's Logos that was manifested in flesh while God still remained in transcendence. The Logos was God while still remained internal to God. God can't become flesh but can manifest in flesh because God still has to be transcendent. We can have His similitude in immanence but God still remains transcendent. That's what happened in OT when The Angel of His Face appeared to people. It's His similitude in immanence but God still in transcendence. When they saw this similitude, people claimed they saw the LORD. This similitude of the LORD was still internal within the transcendent God. 

In case of Christ, He was totally externalized as The Son in order to adopt us as sons of God. He was made in the likeness of men (Phil 2) - total keno-sis. He was made completely mortal like us to taste death like us. After His ascension, He went back to God (Eph 4:8-10 -on High) and thus not only internal to God as He fills all things as the life giving Spirit but also is externally visible to the creatures (now angels) and one day we shall see Him face to face. No creature can ascend ON HIGH but only Christ who proceeded forth from God (as The Logos of God) and went back to God.